Mediaeval Wording from Charter granting money to the monks of Castle Acre

Pincerna

New Member
I have a few words in charter granting the rental monies to the monks of Castle Acre that I am having difficulty with.
The words are important as they may provide a clue to the name of the wife of Hervey and establish Hervey's identity.

The words are these

Domina mabit uxor huei

The word that is causing the problem is mabit, is it a name such as Mabel or Matilda or is it a term of endearment derived from amabilis, I read that the name Mabel comes from the word amabilis.

The 3 choices I have are

Lady Mabel wife of Hervey
Lady Matilda wife of Hervey
Lady, dear wife of Hervey (this option would be very disappointing as it provides no name)

Any help or guidance would be most gratefully received.

Castle acre.png


Dna (there is a horizontal line above the "n" so I assume this word is Domina
Uxor (I have seen this spelt a few different ways uoris and uxore)
Huei ( I have seen this a number of times and is a shortened version of heruei (Hervey)
 

Cinefactus

Censor
Staff member
Do you have a photo with more of the text?
 

Pincerna

New Member
There are a number of pages, the page which contains the words above, the passage containing the words is bottom right.
cart Castle Acre fol 67.jpeg
 

Cinefactus

Censor
Staff member
So 2nd page 2nd paragraph 5th line
 

Pincerna

New Member
So 2nd page 2nd paragraph 5th line
Yes, that it, thank you for taking a look at the document.

The more I look at those words the more I am convinced it says "Lady, dear wife of Hervey" but looking on the positive side it could say "Lady Mabel wife of Hervey" it is my understanding that Mabel and "Dear wife" can be derived from the word amabilis.

I have waited 8 months for the British Library to send me the photocopies of the Charter, the Hervey in the charter is Hervey de Glanville who we think is the brother of Rannulf de Glanville, Rannulf was was Chief Justiciar of England during the reign of King Henry II (1154–89) and was the probable author of The Treatise on the Laws and Customs of the Kingdom of England.
 

Pincerna

New Member
I have been looking at the document for most of the day and have come to the conclusion that Mabit is Mabil.

cart Castle Acre Roger de Glanville.jpeg

I think we can agree this is ROGER DE GLANVILL, notice how the top of the “I” crosses the middle of two “Ls” in Glanvill

Now look at the wording in question again, below, the same writing style is used this time the “I” crosses the middle of the one “L” in Mabil, so the word isn't Mabit its Mabil, yes it could still mean "Dear" but as this document is a Charter I think its more likely to be a name.

Hervys wife.png


These examples are not slips of the pen as the scribe does exactly the same with HERVEY DE GLANVILL

cart Castle Acre Hervey de Glanvill.jpeg
 
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Agrippa

Civis Illustris
How about the following interpretation:
2nd page, 2nd paragraph, 4th and 5th lines: names of wittnesses (ablative case terminations) ??
"Friderico clerico. Domina Mabil uxore Heruei".
Cf. e.g. "acta sunt hec, testibus istis: Avelina uxore Hervei" (https://werkstatt.formulae.uni-hamburg.de/texts/urn:cts:formulae:marmoutier_vendomois.trémault0091.lat001/passage/all).

Btw, there is a very useful lexicon of abbreviations: http://www.ub.uni-koeln.de/cdm/pageflip/collection/mono20/id/8533/type/compoundobject/show/7918/cpdtype/monograph/pftype/image#page/1/mode/2up
 

Pincerna

New Member
How about the following interpretation:
2nd page, 2nd paragraph, 4th and 5th lines: names of wittnesses (ablative case terminations) ??
"Friderico clerico. Domina Mabil uxore Heruei".
Cf. e.g. "acta sunt hec, testibus istis: Avelina uxore Hervei" (https://werkstatt.formulae.uni-hamburg.de/texts/urn:cts:formulae:marmoutier_vendomois.trémault0091.lat001/passage/all).

Btw, there is a very useful lexicon of abbreviations: http://www.ub.uni-koeln.de/cdm/pageflip/collection/mono20/id/8533/type/compoundobject/show/7918/cpdtype/monograph/pftype/image#page/1/mode/2up
That would work for me, the name and relationship are made clear

Friderico clerico. Domina Mabil uxore Heruei
 

Cinefactus

Censor
Staff member
I have been looking at the document for most of the day and have come to the conclusion that Mabit is Mabil.
I should have thought of that. It is obviously a crossed L rather than a t, which would mean an L with an abbreviation. Perhaps Mabile, as it should be in the ablative.

@Westcott is the expert with these documents.
 

Pincerna

New Member
I should have thought of that. It is obviously a crossed L rather than a t, which would mean an L with an abbreviation. Perhaps Mabile, as it should be in the ablative.

@Westcott is the expert with these documents.
It took me a while to spot it, not only do we have to deal with the translation and its intended meaning there are the abbreviations and the scribes penmanship to contended with :rolleyes:
 

Agrippa

Civis Illustris
Transcription of 2nd page, 2nd paragraph, 1st and 2nd lines (classical orthography):

Herueus de glanville omnibus hominibus suis atque amicis francis et inglicis tam futuris quam praesentibus salutem. /
Notum sit omnibus me dedisse et concessisse ecclesiae sanctae mariae
... (i.e. church of St Mary, Castle Acre )

It's pretty difficult to continue... :think:
 

Pincerna

New Member
Thank you for all the replies the input has been most helpful, now to see how the information fits into what we (Think) we know
 

Pincerna

New Member
I wonder if anyone can help with what I think are Scribal Latin Abbreviations they are used frequently in the Doomsday book, the marks I am referring to are those above the "c" in Lanfranc and the "n" in ten. I would be grateful for any assistance as I am unable to find any reference to the meaning of these marks

Scribal abveviation 1.png
 

Pincerna

New Member
Thank you for the reply, I have seen a number of Scribal Abbreviations and I wondered if there was anything special or any consistency in the manner in which the marks above the "c" in Lanfranc and the "n" in ten would be applied.

I did wonder if the symbols above the "c" in Lanfranc and the "n" in ten were used when the last character in the word the Scribe was abbreviating had no vertical component, its easy to cross an L or a T but not so clear when the last letter in the word is a "c" or an "n". !!!!!
 
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