German Boethius commentary

Callaina

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Thanks! :)
 

Serenus

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LOL, I just looked in my inbox and saw the original :eek: :D
Hmm, and now I have some vague curiosity about what the original said.

I'm going to assume it was a salacious interpretation about you being "a Master's student" and leave it be.
 

Callaina

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Here's a couple paragraphs from the commentary, discussing the poems of the Consolation. I want to make sure I've understood them properly (there are a couple areas I'm fuzzy on), so I'll give my translation here. Please let me know if there's anything off. (Also, I don't understand quite how je is being used throughout the first paragraph).

First paragraph:

In jedem Buch findet sich je ein Gedicht in stichischen Glyconeen. Jede Hälfte des Werkes enthält je ein Gedicht in Distichen, in Hinkiamben und in Sapphischen Elfsilbern, außerdem je zwei Gedichte in anapästichen Dimetern. Das heißt aber, daß die mehrfach auftretenden Gedichtformen gleichmäßig auf beide Hälften des Werkes verteilt sind, Wiederholung innerhalb des gleichen Buches ist nicht zu beobachten. Eine Ausnahme bildet lediglich die Wiederholung des Paroemiacus von 2,5 in 3,5, aber auch hier bleibt das Variationsprinzip für das einzelne Buch erhalten.

- In every book is found one poem in stichic glyconics. Each half of the work contains one poem in (elegaic) distichs, (one poem) in limping iambics and one in sapphic hendecasyllables, and furthermore two poems in anapestic dimeter.

- But this means/is to say (??) that, although (?? I don't understand how this sentence coheres) the repeatedly occurring poetic forms are consistently divided between both halves of the work, repetition within the same book is not observed.

- The repetition of the Paroemiacus (meter) from 2,5 in 3,5 provides an exception, but even here the principle of variation within a single book is preserved.
 

Callaina

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Second paragraph:

Bei aller zunächst scheinbaren Willkür in der Variation der Metren läßt sich doch dieses dargestelte Bauprinzip nachweisen. In Zusammenhang mit der Beobachtung über den Umfang des Werkes und seine Zweiteilung durch 3m9 werden gleichzeitig die Vermutungen darüber, daß die Schrift unvollendet sei, als unzutreffend erwiesen. Wenn die letzte Hand etwa am Ende von 5,6 fehlen sollte, so kann das nur die sprachliche Formulierung betreffen, nicht aber den Umfang des Textes, den Aufbau des Werkes und den Inhalt der Beweisführung.

- This foundational principle which has been shown may be attested in every (at first) apparent arbitrariness in the variation of the meters. Simultaneously, moreover, in coherence with the [previous] observation concerning the extent of the work and its twofold division at 3m9, the possibility that the work is unfinished is demonstrated to be incorrect.

- Even if the "final hand" (??) at the end from 5,6 fails a little (??) yet this can only affect the literal phrasing, but not the extent of the text, the construction of the work, and the content of the argumentation.
 
B

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(Also, I don't understand quite how je is being used throughout the first paragraph).
'Je' means 'each' and it can be used rather pleonastically in German... which is also what the commentator does considering there is already a 'je' in 'jede(m)'. The sentences would make just as much sense without the 'je's actually, you just throw them in for good measure.

First paragraph:

In jedem Buch findet sich je ein Gedicht in stichischen Glyconeen.
- In every book is found one poem in stichic glyconics.
Yes, or simply: In each book, there is ...
Mirroring the pleonasm: "In each book, there is one poem each in stichic glyconics."

Jede Hälfte des Werkes enthält je ein Gedicht in Distichen, in Hinkiamben und in Sapphischen Elfsilbern, außerdem je zwei Gedichte in anapästichen Dimetern.

Each half of the work contains one poem in (elegaic) distichs, (one poem) in limping iambics and one in sapphic hendecasyllables, and furthermore two poems in anapestic dimeter.
Yes, that's right. I won't mirror the pleonasm, again. The 'each' does the whole trick in English, while German throws in a lot of random 'je's [which it wouldn't have to do ... it just does so because it can].

Das heißt aber, daß die mehrfach auftretenden Gedichtformen gleichmäßig auf beide Hälften des Werkes verteilt sind, Wiederholung innerhalb des gleichen Buches ist nicht zu beobachten.

- But this means/is to say (??) that, although (?? I don't understand how this sentence coheres) the repeatedly occurring poetic forms are consistently divided between both halves of the work, repetition within the same book is not observed.
(?? I don't understand how this sentence coheres)
In German, comma splicing is acceptable. These are two main clauses (and a subordinate dass-clause).

(I tried to formulate the sentence in an English that makes sense to me; I hope it also makes sense to you: )
"However, this means that the kinds of poems that occur multiple times are distributed equally to both halves of the work; repetitions within the same book cannot be found."

Eine Ausnahme bildet lediglich die Wiederholung des Paroemiacus von 2,5 in 3,5, aber auch hier bleibt das Variationsprinzip für das einzelne Buch erhalten.

- The repetition of the Paroemiacus (meter) from 2,5 in 3,5 provides an exception, but even here the principle of variation within a single book is preserved.

Yes, that's right. I don't know how usual it is to say "to provide an exception" in English. The sentence just means that it "is an exception".
 

Callaina

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Thank you! That's very helpful.

In German, comma splicing is acceptable.
Grrrr...that makes it so much more confusing. :( :angry:

I don't know how usual it is to say "to provide an exception" in English.
It sounds fine to me. (But isn't that what bildet literally means?)
 
B

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It sounds fine to me. (But isn't that what bildet literally means?)

I won't argue over English expressions, of course, I just haven't come across "ABC provides XYZ" with 'provides' meaning nothing else than 'is', yet. Or maybe I have, but I can't remember. It doesn't seem very common to me while the German expression with "bildet" is all over the place in pretentious higher register writing.

I threw a comma splice in there, so you get used to it.
 

Pacifica

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In French, you don't provide an exception, but you make exception.
 

Pacifica

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You could say "constitutes an exception".
 

Callaina

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Second paragraph:

Bei aller zunächst scheinbaren Willkür in der Variation der Metren läßt sich doch dieses dargestelte Bauprinzip nachweisen. In Zusammenhang mit der Beobachtung über den Umfang des Werkes und seine Zweiteilung durch 3m9 werden gleichzeitig die Vermutungen darüber, daß die Schrift unvollendet sei, als unzutreffend erwiesen. Wenn die letzte Hand etwa am Ende von 5,6 fehlen sollte, so kann das nur die sprachliche Formulierung betreffen, nicht aber den Umfang des Textes, den Aufbau des Werkes und den Inhalt der Beweisführung.

- This foundational principle which has been shown may be attested in every (at first) apparent arbitrariness in the variation of the meters. Simultaneously, moreover, in coherence with the [previous] observation concerning the extent of the work and its twofold division at 3m9, the possibility that the work is unfinished is demonstrated to be incorrect.

- Even if the "final hand" (??) at the end from 5,6 fails a little (??) yet this can only affect the literal phrasing, but not the extent of the text, the construction of the work, and the content of the argumentation.

Just alerting Bitmap to this post (it may have gotten lost in the replies...)
 
B

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Second paragraph:

Bei aller zunächst scheinbaren Willkür in der Variation der Metren läßt sich doch dieses dargestellte Bauprinzip nachweisen.
- This foundational principle which has been shown may be attested in every (at first) apparent arbitrariness in the variation of the meters.
You probably got it right, I just reformulate it to make sure:

Despite all the arbitrariness that seems to occur in the variation of metres at first glance, the following principle of construction/ organisation can be found [literally attested/ proven]:

In Zusammenhang mit der Beobachtung (this is pleonastic again) über den Umfang des Werkes und seine Zweiteilung durch 3m9 (I take it that's one of the poems) werden gleichzeitig die Vermutungen darüber, daß die Schrift unvollendet sei, als unzutreffend erwiesen.

Simultaneously, moreover, in coherence with the [previous] observation concerning the extent of the work and its twofold division at 3m9, the possibility that the work is unfinished is demonstrated to be incorrect.
At the same time, with the observation concerning the extent of the (whole) work and its twofold division by poem 3m9, the assumptions that the work may be unfinished are proven wrong.

Wenn die letzte Hand etwa am Ende von 5,6 fehlen sollte, so kann das nur die sprachliche Formulierung betreffen, nicht aber den Umfang des Textes, den Aufbau des Werkes und den Inhalt der Beweisführung.

- Even if the "final hand" (??) at the end from 5,6 fails a little (??) yet this can only affect the literal phrasing, but not the extent of the text, the construction of the work, and the content of the argumentation.

"Last hand"
I think Ovid talks in his tristia about the "last hand" (summa manus) missing from his Metamorphoses, e.g. in 1,7:
nec tamen illa legi poterunt patienter ab ullo,
nesciet his summam siquis abesse manum.

It means that the last bit of finetuning has not yet been done to a poem/work.

Even if the finishing touch should be missing from 5,6, this (missing of the finishing touch) can only pertain to the literal phrasing, but not (I copy your words from here) to the extent of the text, the construction of the work, and the content of the argumentation.
 
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That's a pretty weak argument, btw. I don't know much about the matter, but if there is a claim that the work may not have been finished to its full extent and you want to refute that claim by saying that the whole structure is complete and that the poet may just not have had the chance to go over a few of his lines one last time in order to emeliorate them --- that's the very Roman understanding of an unfinished work.
 

Callaina

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You probably got it right, I just reformulate it to make sure:

Despite all the arbitrariness that seems to occur in the variation of metres at first glance, the following principle of construction/ organisation can be found [literally attested/ proven]:
So bei means "despite" here? And dargestellte is "following", not "preceding"?

At the same time, with the observation concerning the extent of the (whole) work and its twofold division by poem 3m9, the assumptions that the work may be unfinished are proven wrong.
So in Zusammenhäng mit isn't so much "in coherence with" but rather a pleonastic "at the same time"?

Even if the finishing touch should be missing from 5,6, this (missing of the finishing touch) can only pertain to the literal phrasing, but not (I copy your words from here) to the extent of the text, the construction of the work, and the content of the argumentation.

Ah, "final touch" -- that makes more sense.
 
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