De Coniuratione Catilinae

Katarina

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Item bellis Punici omnibus, cum saepe Carthaginienses et in pace et per indutias multa nefaria facionora fecissent, numquam ipsi per occasionem talia fecere: magis quid se dignum foret, quam quid in illos iure fieri posset, quaerebant.

Were they thinking about what was worthy of themselves (so they were questioning their honor) or were they thinking about what was worthy of the Carthaginiesnes (so what is appropriate punishment even if the laws are suggesting something harsher - I suppouse that they are not thinking of the dignity of the Chartaginienses)?
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima

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Location:
Belgium
What was worthy of themselves. If it weren't about themselves, the reflexive pronoun wouldn't be used, but a demonstrative instead.
 

Katarina

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De poena possum equidem dicere, id quod res habet, in luctu atque miseriis mortem aerumnarum requiem, non cruciatum esse ...

I don't get this sentence at all. :(


De poena possum equidem dicere - I can say something about punishment

id quod res habet - I have no idea what is that. Is that any permanent phrase?


in luctu atque miseriis mortem aerumnarum requiem, non cruciatum esse - In sadness and misery death is a rest from trobules, not a torture. Here is AcI but I don't know where is the verb that governs it.
 
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De poena possum equidem dicere, id quod res habet, in luctu atque miseriis mortem aerumnarum requiem, non cruciatum esse ...

I don't get this sentence at all. :(


De poena possum equidem dicere - I can say something about punishment
there is no "something" in this sentence.
The object of dicere is id. The AcI that follows also depends on dicere.
quod res habet "what the matter has" -- I would take that as "what is obvious, what lies in the nature of things":

Regarding (the) punishment I can say what lies in the nature of things: that in sadness and misery death is a rest (maybe in this context a "salvation") from trouble, not a torture.
 

Katarina

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Location:
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Postquam Caesar dicundi finem fect, ceteri verbo alius alii varie adsentiabantur.

Can't get the logic of this part. - Some (ceteri ) agreed (adsentiabantur) with the word (verbo ) of the other (alii ), and antother (alius ) difrently (varie )?
It seems strange to me that alius is singular, since ceteri is plural; also this ''alii'' in not Caesar I suppose, if it was Caesar than it would be here illius, so that mean that some people agreed with the one who had spoken before Caesar?
 
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alii = dative (the genitive would be alius or alterius)
alius = I take it to be nominative

You probably know that alius repeated in different cases bears the meaning of "each other". The verb can stand in the plural in such a case. Simple example: alius alium occiderunt. = "one killed the other" = "people killed each other". While alius ... alius is something like "some ..., some ..." ~ I suppose this is kind of merged here.

So adsentiabantur has 2 subjects in a way: The first one is ceteri, the second one is in "alius alii" ... or you could consider it an apposition if you will, I'm not sure how best to describe it.

ceteri doesn't mean "some", but "the remaining ones, the rest".
I don't really have the context, but I take it that different people gave different speeches, so I'd understand the meaning as:

"When Caesar had finished his speech, out of the other people (ceteri) some people (alius) verbally (verbo = "by giving a short speech" or "by saying something, 'a word'") agreed (adsentiebantur) with some people (alii), while other people agreed with other people (basically alius alii again) in different ways (varie)."
 
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verbō: in a word; i.e. briefly; abl. as adv.
alius aliī: some to one (proposal), another to another (proposal); or ‘different men to different (proposals);’ aliī is dat. obj. of a compound verb
variē: in a varied manner, capriciously; i.e. opinions in the debate varied widely with each speaker

Good thing the comment agreed with me.
 

Katarina

Civis

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Location:
Slovenia
verbō: in a word; i.e. briefly; abl. as adv.
alius aliī: some to one (proposal), another to another (proposal); or ‘different men to different (proposals);’ aliī is dat. obj. of a compound verb
variē: in a varied manner, capriciously; i.e. opinions in the debate varied widely with each speaker

Good thing the comment agreed with me.
:D


Sciebam saepenumero parva manu cum magnis legionibus hostium contendisse; ...

That should be AcI but there is no Accusative? The only way that this sentence makes sence is that cum means against. I don't know the case when cum could mean that. In the commentary it says it is an ablative of association but I have never heard of this ablative. It doesn't exist in my grammar.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima

  • Aedilis

Location:
Belgium
Sciebam saepenumero parva manu cum magnis legionibus hostium contendisse; ...

That should be AcI but there is no Accusative?
Words can sometimes be left implied if it's clear from the context what one is talking about. Here, the implied subject of contendisse is eum = populum Romanum.
The only way that this sentence makes sence is that cum means against.
It means "with" or "against" if you will. In Latin as in English, you can fight "with" someone and it's equivalent to "against".
 
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