German Boethius commentary

Callaina

Feles Curiosissima
I'm currently working my way through Helga Scheible's commentary on Boethius -- written in extremely Latinate German. ;) I've been able to make steady, if slow, progress through it, but a few places have given me some trouble -- as I only recently re-learned German. Here is one passage which I could use some help with; there will certainly be more.

(The context is poem I.1 of the Consolatio Philosophiae.)

1: Trozt der von vornherein zu vermutenden Anlehnung des Gedichtes an ovidische Vorbilder ist gleich im ersten Vers ein deutlicher Anklang an bekannte Verse Vergils nicht zu überhören: georg 4,564 und Aen. 1,1ab.

I don't understand what zu vermutenden means here.

Help is appreciated -- thanks!
 

Bitmap

Civis Illustris
Despite the poem's reference to Ovidian examples, which [reference] could have been expected beforehand, a distinct reference to well-known verses by Vergil cannot be denied: georg 4, 564 and Aen. 1,1ab.

zu vermutende Dinge = something that had to be expected = res expectandae
 

Callaina

Feles Curiosissima
Ah! My textbook entirely omitted that construction. Nice to know German has a sort of gerundive.
 

Bitmap

Civis Illustris
Yes, it's a bit posh/ academic.
 

Callaina

Feles Curiosissima
Another, possibly stupid question: there are a lot of bracketed citations introduced by "tr." Is this a standard abbreviation?

e.g. (tr. 5,1,5ff).

I don't understand what's meant as these don't seem to be references to the Boethius text, and I'm not sure what else they could be referencing.
 

Callaina

Feles Curiosissima
Aha -- they are actually references to Ovid (the Tristia)!
 

Bitmap

Civis Illustris
Slightly stupid question: aren't you supposed to be on summer holiday?
 

Callaina

Feles Curiosissima
Nah, I'm a Master's student, so I'm supposed to be writing my thesis. Well, actually, I'm supposed to be done at least a chapter of it already. But, well, it is summer... :oops:
 

Callaina

Feles Curiosissima
Here's another bit:

Der erste Teil [...] setzt etwas weiter abseits an.

Just not sure how to parse this.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
Something like "the first section stands somewhat (further) apart"?

Caveat: I've no idea about the context, and not much more of an idea about German. I'm just trying to be clever by taking a guess, and may end up looking stupid instead. ;)

For one thing, it seems that setzen would need to be transitive in that sense...
 

Callaina

Feles Curiosissima
The an is with setzen, I think, since in German prefixes are separable like that. It can mean a bunch of things, but "formulate", "insert", "attach" are probably the most likely (and yes, as far as I can tell it's always transitive). Maybe "formulates/inserts something (etwas) further on/apart (weiter abseits)" -- though it doesn't seem to make much sense in context.
 

Bitmap

Civis Illustris
Ansetzen is intransitive in this sentence... actually, there seems to be a big difference in meaning between the transitive and the intransitive use of that verb, and I can't even seem to find a decent translation for it in my online dictionary.

It is a bit hard to translate without context or without knowing the full line of commentary. It basically sounds like "The first section begins a bit further away" or "The first section addresses the issue from a larger distance" meaning that it doesn't go medias in res, but that it deals with some other, less relevant issues first.

You would have to give me the full sentence to make sure :)
I briefly considered looking at the commentary myself, but it would have to be ordered from the archive of my trusted library :/
 

Callaina

Feles Curiosissima
It's referring to the first section of poem I.1 of the Consolatio.

Der erste Teil (13-16), dessen allgemeiner sententiöser Charakter de Einfluss Senecas (Tro. 1171ff; noch formelhafter H.O. 122) verrät, setzt etwas weiter abseits an.
 

Bitmap

Civis Illustris
Ok, so I suppose it refers to the general contemplation/evaluation of death before he proceeds to contemplate his own situation ...
 

Callaina

Feles Curiosissima
Yes, that's the context. So does it mean "addresses the issue from a larger distance" (i.e. first it contemplates death as such, and then moves "further away" to contemplate just his own death)?
 

Bitmap

Civis Illustris
Yes, that's the context. So does it mean "addresses the issue from a larger distance" (i.e. first it contemplates death as such, and then moves "further away" to contemplate just his own death)?

Yes, "addresses" or "approaches" should work, I think. Etaoin liked my post as well, so I suppose she agrees ;)
 
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