German Boethius commentary

Bitmap

Civis Illustris
So bei means "despite" here?
And dargestellte is "following", not "preceding"?
No. The "following" is in the word "dieses". I think I forgot to translate dargestellte. You are right to say that it means "previously shown".

Despite all the arbitrariness that seems to occur in the variation of metres at first glance, the following principle of construction/ organisation, which has been shown previosuly, can be found [literally attested/ proven]:

So in Zusammenhäng mit isn't so much "in coherence with" but rather a pleonastic "at the same time"?
No, gleichzeitig = "at the same time"

Im Zusammenhang mit literally means "in connexion to" or "with regard to". I just threw it out of my translation because it made no sense in English or seemed rather pleonastic. You would end up with "At the same time, concerning the observation concerning the extent ..."
 

Callaina

Feles Curiosissima
Here's another rather difficult and long paragraph, consisting of a single sentence :rolleyes1: The context: in the previous paragraph the author has mentioned various critical opinions about the poetry of the Consolation, some approving, others (including Usener's) not.

Ganz allgemein kann gesagt werden, daß trotz aller Abhängigkeit in Sprache und einzelnen Motiven dank des stets gegenwärtigen Bezugs auf das eigene Geschick teilweise Verse von starker Intensität, entschiedenem Engagement und hoher poetischer Schönheit gelungen sind, während einige Gedichte, die eher wie eine mechanische Unterbrechung des Dialogs wirken, wohl zu Recht entspreschend dem Urteil Useners als zwar geschickte, aber doch keineswegs den heutigen Leser beeindruckende Versifikationen bezeichnet werden können.

Here's my best shot: :brickwall2:

It can be said in a general way, that, despite all dependence in wording and individual motifs, thanks to the always-contemporary reference/connection (?) of the individual skill [???? I don't know what this is talking about...], the verses are in part successful due to their rather* strong intensity, their firm commitment and their high-poetic beauty, while several verses, which rather function as a mechanical breaking-up of the dialogue, rightly corresponding to Usener's judgment as [a] truly skillful [judgment], can, conversely, in no way be denoted a skillful versification by today's readers.

*I'm assuming that a comparative can signify "rather X", as in Latin?
 

Bitmap

Civis Illustris
That commentary is from the 70s or something, isn't it?
I think back then, it was considered to be impressive if you managed to fill a whole page with a single sentence in German.
I don't know, maybe it still is. I can do that without a problem, but I don't see anything impressive in creating endless sentences that defy meaning. My general theory about academic writing is that the more you have to rely on pompous, pretentious and overreaching phrasing, the less you actually have to say.

Ganz allgemein kann gesagt werden, daß trotz aller Abhängigkeit in Sprache und einzelnen Motiven dank des stets gegenwärtigen Bezugs auf das eigene Geschick teilweise Verse von starker Intensität, entschiedenem Engagement und hoher poetischer Schönheit gelungen sind, während einige Gedichte, die eher wie eine mechanische Unterbrechung des Dialogs wirken, wohl zu Recht entspreschend dem Urteil Useners als zwar geschickte, aber doch keineswegs den heutigen Leser beeindruckende Versifikationen bezeichnet werden können.
In general, it can be said that despite all dependence in wording and individual motifs, due to the reference to his very own fate that [that = the reference] is always present [= stets gegenwärtig] Booethius [I changed the passive to the active here to make it clearer] partly managed to compose verses of strong intensity, firm commitment and high poetic beauty, whereas some poems, which appear to be more of a mechanical break-up of the dialogue, can – according to the judgement of Usener – truly be called skillful versifications, which, however, do by no means impress the reader of today.

*I'm assuming that a comparative can signify "rather X", as in Latin?

von starker Intensität is a dative ... it basically works like a "dative of quality" here (a bit of genitive of quality rip-off since the preposition von essentially denots possession and I think that's where it comes from).
The comparative of stark is stärker (with the dots on the a).
 

Callaina

Feles Curiosissima
Thanks! :)

That commentary is from the 70s or something, isn't it?
Haha, yep.

In general, it can be said that despite all dependence in wording and individual motifs, due to the reference to his very own fate that [that = the reference] is always present [= stets gegenwärtig] Booethius [I changed the passive to the active here to make it clearer] partly managed to compose verses of strong intensity, firm commitment and high poetic beauty, whereas some poems, which appear to be more of a mechanical break-up of the dialogue, can – according to the judgement of Usener – truly be called skillful versifications, which, however, do by no means impress the reader of today.
Ahhhh. Now I see how the last bit fits together.


von starker Intensität is a dative ... it basically works like a "dative of quality" here (a bit of genitive of quality rip-off since the preposition von essentially denots possession and I think that's where it comes from).
The comparative of stark is stärker (with the dots on the a).

Oops. :oops:
 

Bitmap

Civis Illustris
In general, it can be said that despite all dependence in wording and individual motifs, due to the reference to his very own fate that [that = the reference] is always present [= stets gegenwärtig] Booethius [I changed the passive to the active here to make it clearer] partly managed to compose verses of strong intensity, firm commitment and high poetic beauty, whereas some poems, which appear to be more of a mechanical break-up of the dialogue, can – according to the judgement of Usener – truly be called skillful versifications, which, however, do by no means impress the reader of today.
I tried to phrase the stets gegenwärtig in a different way:

In general, it can be said that despite all dependence in wording and individual motifs, due to the omnipresent reference to his very own fate , Booethius partly managed to compose verses of strong intensity, firm commitment and high poetic beauty, whereas some poems, which appear to be more of a mechanical break-up of the dialogue, can – according to the judgement of Usener – truly be called skillful versifications, which, however, do by no means impress the reader of today.

Do you actually need a full English translation of those German sentences? Surely, you just need to refer to them somehow and are then free to quote them in German.
 

Callaina

Feles Curiosissima
Do you actually need a full English translation of those German sentences? Surely, you just need to refer to them somehow and are then free to quote them in German.
Yes, of course, but I need to make sure I understand them!
 

Callaina

Feles Curiosissima
By the way, this is another piece of poor commentary.

Yes, that struck me as strange as well (since the "reader of today" is rather unlikely to be able to write fluent Latin verse).
 

Callaina

Feles Curiosissima
Just a brief question here:

In der Mitte des Werkes hat sich die philosophische Argumentation der Dichtung unterzuordnen...

I'm not familiar with this construction. Does it mean "In the middle of the work, the philosophical argument concerning poetry has to subordinate itself"?
 

Bitmap

Civis Illustris
It means that the philosophical argument has to subordinate itself under the poetry. (der Dichtung is a dative here)
 

Callaina

Feles Curiosissima
Here's another difficult sentence -- I just don't know how to construe the last part.

Eine besonders eindringliche philosophische Interpretation (mit Übersetzung) hat der Hymnus, gleichzeitig als Lehrgedicht verstanden, durch Werner Beierwaltes (Trost im Begriff) erfahren.

The hymn has a particularly compelling philosophical interpretation (with translation? transmission? rendering?), simultaneously to be understood (??) as a didactic poem, through...
 

Bitmap

Civis Illustris
Here's another difficult sentence -- I just don't know how to construe the last part.

Eine besonders eindringliche philosophische Interpretation (mit Übersetzung) hat der Hymnus, gleichzeitig als Lehrgedicht verstanden, durch Werner Beierwaltes (Trost im Begriff) erfahren.

The hymn has a particularly compelling philosophical interpretation (with translation? transmission? rendering?), simultaneously to be understood (??) as a didactic poem, through...

The hymnus [I don't know exactly what is meant by that; it probably refers to one of the poems] – being understood/regarded as a didactic poem at the same time – has received a particularly compelling philosophical interpretation (along with a translation) from Werner Beierwaltes.

Trost im Begriff is an article:
Trost im Begriff. Zu Boethius’ Hymnus ‚O qui perpetua mundum ratione gubernas’, Communicatio fidei. Festschr. f. Eugen Biser zum 65. Geburtstag, hg. von H. Bürkle u. G. Becker, Regensburg 1983, 241-251 .

The guy died in February this year.
 

Callaina

Feles Curiosissima
Oh, that verstanden is a participle. I should have known that. Duh. :hide:
 

Callaina

Feles Curiosissima
And yes, it's IIIm9 (the poem that my thesis is focused on).
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
*snail recoils in horror far, far back into her shell at the word "thesis"*
 

Bitmap

Civis Illustris
I should have read all of the Consolatio when I had the chance :p
 
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