Help translating prayers...

CarloScalisi

New Member
Hello,

I have compiled some prayers for a personal prayer book and am attempting to translate them into Latin. I would greatly appreciate help in doing so. I'm not familiar with the differences between the various stages of Latin, but I would imagine that, for these prayers, Ecclesiastical Latin would be optimal. Nevertheless, I'd greatly appreciate any help. As you'll see, I've made an attempt at translation, but I don't trust myself nearly enough to put these permanently in the book. Please feel free to annotate any corrections as well; they would be very helpful in the learning process.

Thanks!!

Carlo

O my God, I firmly believe in all the truths that the Holy Catholic Church upholds and reveals, because you, the infallible Truth, have revealed them to her. In this faith I am resolved to live and die.

O Deus meus, firma fide credo omnes veritates quas Sancta Ecclesia Cathólica retinet et revelat, quia tu, infallíbilis Véritas, ea illi revelasti. In hac fide vívere et mori statuo.

O my God, relying on your promises, I hope that, through the infinite merits of Jesus Christ, you will grant me the pardon of my sins, and the graces necessary to serve you in this life and to obtain eternal happiness in the next.

O Deus meus, confidentem in promissis tuis, spero, propter laudes infinitas Iesu Christi, ut mihi dones remissionem peccatorum meorum et gratias necessarias...


O my God, I love you with my whole heart and above all things, because you are infinitely good and perfect, and I love my neighbor as myself for love of thee. Grant that I may love you more and more in this life, and in the next for all eternity. Amen.
 
Starting with the firſt, it might be better Eccleſiaſtical style to include the preposition 'in' between 'credo' and an accuſative for 'believe in'. Also remember that 'veritates' is feminine, so the accuſative plural tranſlating 'them' ſhould be 'eas'.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
I confirm what Abbatissae Scriptor said about the first one, and perhaps I would also reverse the kinds of pronouns and say illas ei revelasti.

In the second one, confidentem, as referring to the subject of spero, should be in the nominative: confidens.

"... to serve you in this life and to obtain eternal happiness in the next" I would continue as ... ut in hac vita serviam tibi et aeternam beatitudinem adipiscar in sequenti.

O my God, I love you with my whole heart and above all things, because you are infinitely good and perfect, and I love my neighbor as myself for love of thee. Grant that I may love you more and more in this life, and in the next for all eternity. Amen.

O Deus meus, toto corde et supra omnia diligo te, quia infinite bonus perfectusque es, et proximum meum diligo sicut me ipsum propter dilectionem tui. Da ut in hac vita te magis magisque diligere possim, atque in sequenti in aeternum/in saecula saeculorum. Amen.
 

CarloScalisi

New Member
Thank you guys so much for the help!! I need some more. I've attempted translation of all except the last prayer. Again, please feel free to make any necessary corrections. I know I have much to learn. Thanks in advance!

Watch, O Lord, with those who wake, or watch or weep tonight, and give your angels charge over those who sleep. Tend your sick ones, O Lord Jesus Christ; rest your weary ones; bless your dying ones; soothe your suffering ones; pity your afflicted ones; shield your joyous ones; and all for your love's sake. Amen.
Vígila hac nocte, O Dómine, cum eis quibus vígilant vel invígilant vel flent, et ángelos tuos eis quibus dórmiunt praeficia. Aegros filios tuos cura, O Dómine Iesu Christe, face ut lassos filios tuos requiescant, moribundos filios tuos benedice, ferentes filios tuos consola, laetos filios tuos protege, et totus propter amorem tuum. Amen.
V. Eternal rest grant unto (names), O Lord.
R. And let the perpetual light shine upon him/her/them. And may their souls, through the mercy of God, rest in peace. Amen.
V. Requiem aeternam dona (…), Dómine.
R. Et lux perpetua luceat ei(s). Ánima(e) sua(e), per misericordiam Dei, requiesca(n)t in pace. Amen.
Heavenly Father, bless (names) and keep him/her/them in your love. Grant him/her/them a peaceful rest tonight, and send your angels to protect him/her/them. Amen.
V. Pater Divine, benedice (…) atque in amore tuo eum/eam/eos serva.
R. Requiem bonam hac nocte ei/s dona, ac mitte ángelos tuos ut eum/eam/eos protegant.
V. Eternal rest grant unto them, O Lord.
R. And let perpetual light shine upon them. May the souls of the faithful departed, through the mercy of God, rest in peace. Amen.
V. Requiem aeternam dona eis, Dómine.
R. Et lux perpetua luceat eis. Ánimae suae, per misericordiam Dei, requiescant in pace. Amen.
Examination of Conscience
In your presence, O Lord, I place myself, and I ask for your help in examining my day. I give thanks to you, Lord, for every good thing today. I am sorry for all of my sins: (name sins). And help me tomorrow, I pray O Lord, to sin no more.
Examen
Coram te, Dómine, me pono et auxilium tuum in scrutare meum diem queso. Gratias tibi ago, Dómine, pro ómnibus bonis hodie. Me paénitet omnium meorum peccatorum (…) O Dómine, adiuva me cras, amabo, ne denuo peccem.
I lie down in this bed with Mary on my chest; while I sleep she watches, and if something happens she will wake me. I also lie down with Jesus, and with Jesus near I have no fear. The Lord is my father, the Madonna is my mother, and all the angels and saints are my brothers and sisters, and now I cover myself with their mantle: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

??????
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
It's a lot to check at one time, but here's alread a part of it:
Watch, O Lord, with those who wake, or watch or weep tonight, and give your angels charge over those who sleep. Tend your sick ones, O Lord Jesus Christ; rest your weary ones; bless your dying ones; soothe your suffering ones; pity your afflicted ones; shield your joyous ones; and all for your love's sake. Amen.
Vígila hac nocte, O Dómine, cum eis quibus vígilant vel invígilant vel flent, et ángelos tuos eis quibus dórmiunt praeficia. Aegros filios tuos cura, O Dómine Iesu Christe, face ut lassos filios tuos requiescant, moribundos filios tuos benedice, ferentes filios tuos consola, laetos filios tuos protege, et totus propter amorem tuum. Amen.
Quibus should be nominative qui, because it's the subject of vigilant etc.

Hac nocte isn't placed correctly compared to where it is in the english version. In the Latin you're saying "Watch tonight, O lord..." whereas in the English you say "watch tonight, O Lord, with those who wake etc. tonight". It should be ... qui hac nocte vigilant vel etc., .... qui vigilant hac nocte vel etc., or ... qui vigilant vel. etc. hac nocte.

I'm not sure how to render a difference in Latin between "watch" and "wake"; I'm not sure if vigilant vel invigilant doens't just look a bit funny.

et ángelos tuos eis quibus dórmiunt praeficia: same problem here with quibus; it should be qui, though you could use a present participle dormientibus instead of the relative clause. *Praeficia should be praefice.

There's no reason to add filios, "sons", in every place where you just have "ones" in the English.

The imperative face exists in archaic Latin, but in case the classical form is fac. Idem for dicere; an archaic imperative dice exists, but the regular one is dic, so it's the same for benedicere ---> benedic.

Lassos (filios) tuos should be in the nominative because it's the subject of requiescant.

I think dolentes would be better than ferentes.

Though an alternative non-deponent form consolo exists, the verb is more usually deponent, so the imperative would be more regularly consolare.

You didn't translate "pity your afflicted ones": afflictorum tuorum miserere.

Et totus propter amorem tuum doesn't work; if by "all" you mean "everyone" - as in "protect everyone for your love's sake" - you need omnes, and if you mean "everything" - as in "do all this for your love's sake" - you need omnia.

Also, amorem isn't wrong but "love" in Christian context is more often said caritas or dilectio than amor.
V. Eternal rest grant unto (names), O Lord.
R. And let the perpetual light shine upon him/her/them. And may their souls, through the mercy of God, rest in peace. Amen.
V. Requiem aeternam dona (…), Dómine.
R. Et lux perpetua luceat ei(s). Ánima(e) sua(e), per misericordiam Dei, requiesca(n)t in pace. Amen.
This is ok except one thing: suus, a, um is reflexive; which means that it's used principally when the owner is the subject of the sentence. It isn't the case here, so instead of sua(e) you need eius for singular and eorum (or earum if they happened to be only women) for plural.
You didn't translate the last "and"; I don't know if it's intentional or not.
Heavenly Father, bless (names) and keep him/her/them in your love. Grant him/her/them a peaceful rest tonight, and send your angels to protect him/her/them. Amen.
V. Pater Divine, benedice (…) atque in amore tuo eum/eam/eos serva.
R. Requiem bonam hac nocte ei/s dona, ac mitte ángelos tuos ut eum/eam/eos protegant.
Divine is "divine"; caelestis would be more exactly "heavenly".

Same things as I said above concerning benedic and amor vs. caritas/dilectio.

Bonam is "good"; placidam would be more exact for "peaceful".
V. Eternal rest grant unto them, O Lord.
R. And let perpetual light shine upon them. May the souls of the faithful departed, through the mercy of God, rest in peace. Amen.
V. Requiem aeternam dona eis, Dómine.
R. Et lux perpetua luceat eis. Ánimae suae, per misericordiam Dei, requiescant in pace. Amen.
"Of the faithful departed" might perhaps be rendered as fidelium defunctorum.
 

CarloScalisi

New Member
It's a lot to check at one time, but here's alread a part of it:Quibus should be nominative qui, because it's the subject of vigilant etc.

Hac nocte isn't placed correctly compared to where it is in the english version. In the Latin you're saying "Watch tonight, O lord..." whereas in the English you say "watch tonight, O Lord, with those who wake etc. tonight". It should be ... qui hac nocte vigilant vel etc., .... qui vigilant hac nocte vel etc., or ... qui vigilant vel. etc. hac nocte.

Salve Pacis puella,

Thank you VERY MUCH for your response. I'm trying to understand why "qui" should be used in the first sentence. You're right, it's the subject of "vigilant," so shouldn't it be plural? And it follows the preposition "cum," which apparently employs the ablative? So I assumed it should be the plural ablative of "qui," namely "quibus". As such, it would agree with "eis," the ablative plural of "is".

Where am I going wrong? Thanks for the help!

Carlo

I would also love your help with the following. I am translating from English to Latin, and I've made an attempt on the first two. The third is an English translation of a Sicilian prayer, which I am now trying to translate into Latin.

1. In your presence, O Lord, I place myself, and I ask for your help in examining my day. I give thanks to you, Lord, for every good thing today. I am sorry for all of my sins: (name sins). And help me tomorrow, I pray O Lord, to sin no more.

Coram te, Dómine, me pono et auxilium tuum in scrutare meum diem queso. Gratias tibi ago, Dómine, pro ómnibus bonis hodie. Me paénitet omnium meorum peccatorum (…) O Dómine, adiuva me cras, amabo, ne denuo peccem.

2. My God, I am sorry for my sins with all my heart. In choosing to do wrong and failing to do good, I have sinned against you, whom I should love above all things. I firmly intend, with your help, to do penance, to sin no more, and to avoid whatever leads me to sin. Our Savior Jesus Christ suffered and died for us. In His name, my God, have mercy. Amen.

Deus meus, ex toto corde paénitet me omnium meorum peccatorum, eaque detestor, quia peccando, non solum poenas a te iuste statutas proméritus sum, sed praesertim quia offendi te, summum bonum, ac dignum qui super omnia diligaris. Ídeo fírmiter propono, adiuvante gratia tua, de cétero me non peccaturum peccándique occasiones próximas fugiturum. Amen.

3. I lie down in this bed with Mary upon my chest; while I sleep, she watches, and if something happens, she will wake me. I also lie down with Jesus, and with Jesus near me I have no fear. The Lord is (like) my father, the Madonna is (like) my mother, and all the angels and saints are (like) my brothers and sisters. And now I cover myself with their mantle: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Thanks again!!
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
Thank you VERY MUCH for your response. I'm trying to understand why "qui" should be used in the first sentence. You're right, it's the subject of "vigilant," so shouldn't it be plural? And it follows the preposition "cum," which apparently employs the ablative? So I assumed it should be the plural ablative of "qui," namely "quibus". As such, it would agree with "eis," the ablative plural of "is".

Where am I going wrong? Thanks for the help!
Qui is not only the nominative masculine singular, but also the nominative masculine plural. It doesn't depend on the preposition cum; its antecedent eis does. Qui is only the subject of the relative clause, and as such can only be nominative. Cum eis qui vigilant = "with those who wake" ---> eis/"those" depends on the preposition cum/"with", and qui/"who" is the subject of vigilant/"wake".

Here's how relative pronouns are used: they agree in gender and number with their antecedent (= the thing(s)/person(s) they represent), BUT they take the case required by their own function in their own relative clause, which may be different from that of the antecedent. Cum eis qui vigilant ---> qui agrees in gender and number (masculine plural) with its antecedent eis, but takes the case (nominative) required by its function (namely subject) in the relative clause qui vigilant. Another example: "the man (whom) I saw yesterday was tall" = homo quem heri vidi excelsus erat ---> quem agrees in masculine singular with homo, but takes the case required by its own function in the relative clause quem heri vidi, and this function is direct object of vidi, and so accusative.
I would also love your help with the following.
I haven't finished correcting your previous post yet - I'm sorry, you'll have to wait a little as I'm rather busy and correcting such extensive pieces of translation takes time.
 

CarloScalisi

New Member
Thank you very much for the information! I believe that I understand now. I'll await your further correspondence at your earliest convenience.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
You're welcome. :)
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
Hello, here are the corrections on the last of your translations in your other post that I hadn't finished looking at yet:
Examination of Conscience
In your presence, O Lord, I place myself, and I ask for your help in examining my day. I give thanks to you, Lord, for every good thing today. I am sorry for all of my sins: (name sins). And help me tomorrow, I pray O Lord, to sin no more.
Examen
Coram te, Dómine, me pono et auxilium tuum in scrutare meum diem queso. Gratias tibi ago, Dómine, pro ómnibus bonis hodie. Me paénitet omnium meorum peccatorum (…) O Dómine, adiuva me cras, amabo, ne denuo peccem.
You didn't translate "of conscience" in "examination of conscience": examen conscientiae.

Scrutor is normally deponent, so the infinitive is scrutari; but in (as most prepositions) can't be followed by an infinitive. You need a gerundive construction: in die meo scrutando.

Queso ----> quaeso (unless you want to use a medieval spelling writing ae as e, but you haven't been doing so in the rest, so I assume this is just a mistake or typo).

You have changed the place of "o Lord" without apparent reason in the last sentence - in the English version it's together with "I pray" and in the Latin you put it before adiuva. You also didn't translate "and", if it matters...

Amabo can be used the way we say "please", but it looks a little off (too colloquial or something) in this context, I think. I would rather replace it with quaeso or precor.

And here's my translation for this bit:
I lie down in this bed with Mary on my chest; while I sleep she watches, and if something happens she will wake me. I also lie down with Jesus, and with Jesus near I have no fear. The Lord is my father, the Madonna is my mother, and all the angels and saints are my brothers and sisters, and now I cover myself with their mantle: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
In hoc lecto iaceo Maria super pectus meum posita; ea me dormiente vigilat, ac si quid acciderit excitabit me. Cum Iesu quoque iaceo, Iesuque propinquo nullus mihi metus est. Dominus pater meus, Sancta Virgo mater mea, omnes angeli sanctique fratres et sorores meae sunt; iamque horum pallio me tego: Patris et Filii et Spiritus Sancti (---> do you mean the mantle of the Father, of the Son and of the Holy Spirit or the mantle of the angels and saints etc., their mantle being the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit? I translated it as the first option but I was not completely sure which you meant.).
 

CarloScalisi

New Member
Hello, here are the corrections on the last of your translations in your other post that I hadn't finished looking at yet:You didn't translate "of conscience" in "examination of conscience": examen conscientiae....
Salve!

Thank you very much again for the help. Does the following translation make more sense? I wasn't sure where to place "quaeso":

Et adiuva me cras, quaeso O Dómine, ne denuo peccem.

And help me tomorrow, I pray O Lord, to sin no more.

Also, where is the stress in the word denuo?

Finally, in the last translation that you provided, I believe that the mantle is that of the angles and saints. Would that change the translation? I think the last part is merely the words that accompany the Sign of the Cross.
 

Arca Defectionis

Civis Illustris
Might I ask why you want to pray in Latin? It seems like an incredibly perverse exercise.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima
Staff member
Et adiuva me cras, quaeso O Dómine, ne denuo peccem.

And help me tomorrow, I pray O Lord, to sin no more.
It's ok.
Also, where is the stress in the word denuo?
I don't know; wait for someone else to answer this.
Finally, in the last translation that you provided, I believe that the mantle is that of the angles and saints. Would that change the translation? I think the last part is merely the words that accompany the Sign of the Cross.
Yes, it would change the translation. But isn't the sign of the cross usually accompanied by "in the name of the Father..."?
The prepoſitional mark of the vocative is not needed before 'o' ſtems, and is thus not often uſed. 'Domine' is ſufficient by itſelf.
I don't think it's wrong if you feel like saying "O", though. (And conversely, it isn't wrong either not to use it even with nouns whose voc. is the same as the nom.)
Might I ask why you want to pray in Latin? It seems like an incredibly perverse exercise.
Why perverse...? The Holy Church has been doing it for centuries, you know, it's nothing new. :D
 

Arca Defectionis

Civis Illustris
Also, where is the stress in the word denuo?
Like Pacis puella, I can't give you a sure answer, since it's a lexicalization of a prepositional phrase, but my instinct is to go with the pronunciation it would have as a phrase, denúo, since I find it difficult to imagine the "de" receiving the stress, though that is technically where it would fall if the accent rules were applied to denuo as to any other word (whereas de nóvo has the stress of novo fall on the penult per usual rules, then places the phrasal stress on novo over de)


Why perverse...? The Holy Church has been doing it for centuries, you know, it's nothing new. :D
I worded things too aggressively, since I wasn't aiming to start a religious controversy. But the idea of praying in Latin is as baffling to me as when non-Arab Muslims pray in Arabic - even more so. I would think one would want to use their mother tongue to God, since it is meant to be the closest relation there is, which is why the Bible tends to use thou, tu, tú, du, etc. (well, at least until thou was lost in English). Speaking a foreign language to God is a strange exercise, I think, because it distances you from him in a seemingly unnecessary way, assuming God understands every language. That Greek, the lingua franca of the eastern Mediterranean, was chosen as the language for the New Testament, to me, is itself a testament to the ecumenical nature of Christianity - it is itself a translation of Jesus' actual words, I think emphasizing that the words don't matter, but the meaning. The whole point of the Greek Gospel, I think, was to reach people in their own language.

I think the Latin Mass is somewhat more defensible, since it is a communal prayer, and I can imagine at some point in history, the fact that everybody in Europe was performing the same mass verbatim helped foster religious harmony.

But still, what is particularly peculiar is the fact that Latin is not a sacred language at all in Christianity, unlike Arabic in Islam. Whereas I could see reciting prayers that are taken verbatim from the word of God, as Muslims believe, in Christianity there is no such possibility except perhaps in Hebrew. Latin has been called one of the tres linguae sacrae before, but the case is fairly hard to make, seeing as it is not a scriptural language, nor did Jesus speak it.

But I suppose it all comes down to theological conjecture in the end. If you find solace in Latin prayer, by all means pray in Latin. I just am personally confused by the practice.
 

Nooj

Civis Illustris
I'm not sure if 'closest relation there is' adequately describes the kind of relationship that people have with God. This seems to me more characteristic of the sensibilities of some select Protestant groups, who like to speak of religion as a personal relationship (and only that), and if such a relationship does not obtain, then the religion is mere superstition.

Of course in one sense, Christians have always described religion as a kind of relationship with the person of God, in the most intimate of ways. God is closer to us than we are to ourselves. For example, Augustine writes: de universis autem quae intellegimus, non loquentem qui personat foris, sed intus ipsi menti praesidentem consulimus veritatem, verbis fortasse ut consulamus admoniti. Ille autem, qui consulitur, docet, qui in interiore homine habitare dictus est Christus.

But the opposite tendency is equally strong, to affirm God's distance. To talk to God is to talk to the great Other, the Other of all Others: and so well deserving of unfamiliarity, strangeness, obscurity and the respect and stand-offishness that comes with not knowing a stranger.

It might interest you to know that among Hindus, certain daily prayers are learned in Sanskrit, but precious few people know Sanskrit, and it's common to pray without knowing the meaning of what you're praying (vernacular translations of said prayers exist).
 
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