Improving my oral French

[Callaina]

Can one use trigger in a medium way like that?

I've heard it used like that.

 

[Bitmap]

*swallowing back some profanities*

Why?

Oh, I see ... not because of my post

 

[Pacifica]

No, not because of your post.

 

[Deleted member 13757]

Can one use trigger in a medium way like that?

I don't think so.

 

[Issacus Divus]

It sounds weird in that context, although it makes sense.

 

[Deleted member 13757]

 

[Pacifica]

Lol. Only the "tonton" and "mémé" ones make sense as complete sentences, though. Also, the syllables in the "mémé" one don't all sound quite the same to me, but well, I guess it's still close.

 

[Callaina]

One word that came up in my French exercises yesterday was orgueil, which has an extremely hard-to-reproduce vowel sound and one of those R's to boot. Here's my best attempt at saying it.

Is this something close to correct?

 

[Pacifica]

Yes, it's close, but the sound you're making there sounds a bit too much like the one in eux, I think...

 

[Callaina]

How should it be different?

 

[Pacifica]

The sound in orgueil is like the one in utilisateurs, so something very close the vowel in "bird".

Here's a recording of the sound in orgueil vs. the one in eux. The main difference, I think, is in the rounding or not of the lips. The lips are rounded in eux, not so in orgueil, or at least much less.

You can probably find better-quality recordings online, too.

 

[Callaina]

Any better?

It strikes me as rather ironic that orgueil is the perfect word to take down a peg anyone who feels particular pride in their mastery of French pronunciation

 

[Pacifica]

Hmm... Sounds a bit too much like an o now, somehow. I wish I were more of a phonetician; I might be able to help you better if I were.

 

[Callaina]

@Godmy , do you have any tips for making this elusive sound?

 

[Bitmap]

Here's a recording of the sound in orgueil vs. the one in eux. The main difference, I think, is in the rounding or not of the lips. The lips are rounded in eux, not so in orgueil, or at least much less.

Theoretically, it should be a rounded-lip sound as well.
As I have written above, the sound in eux, /ø/ (German ö) should be an é, /e/ (as in passé or like the German e in Leere) with rounded lips.
The sound in orgueil, /œ/, should be an è, /ɛ/ (as in crème or like the German long ä in Ähre) with rounded lips... well, I'm not French (and neither are you ... but you seem to know the language quite well), but maybe you can try it: the difference between è and /œ/ should really just mainly be the position of your lips.

 

[Godmy]

(@Callaina)
I would rather not provide information on the French phonetics, because if I explain what the IPA says, I usually find out that with certain of those rounded and/or nasalized vowels, the vowel quality is usually very different in French/Belgium and different in Canada e.g.; in my experience most of the typical IPA (the typical phonology) used for French doesn't agree with the pronunciation in France(Paris) and Belgium in about 2 cases... (2 vowels), but some dictionaries (I think Wiktionary) sometimes do show those variants. Can't give details atm., because I haven't looked into any French for quite some time

Spoiler: GA

I can give you quite a good description of the Northern American English phonology though For example, I could tell you that you have only one rounded vowel (or two, in fact) and that is what a Czech/Roman could simplify as "u": 1) put/good/foot 2) food/soup ... everything else in the GA English phonology is usually unrounded along with all instances of "o", with an exception of a long "o-like" vowel in "caught" and "taught" only in SOME regions where it is still rounded, mostly it is unrounded.

So, when a GA speaker (like yourself) acquires Latin and French, they need to learn to round "o"s (like the Brittish do: compare the Brittish "God" with NA "God") ... reverse engineer for themselves what even rounded is by observing how they pronounce that u-like vowel I mentioned...

 

[Bitmap]

I wonder if Belgians can be considered the Austrians of France.

 

[Issacus Divus]

Lol, that makes sense.

 

[Pacifica]

Theoretically, it should be a rounded-lip sound as well.
As I have written above, the sound in eux, /ø/ (German ö) should be an é, /e/ (as in passé or like the German e in Leere) with rounded lips.
The sound in orgueil, /œ/, should be an è, /ɛ/ (as in crème or like the German long ä in Ähre) with rounded lips... well, I'm not French (and neither are you ... but you seem to know the language quite well), but maybe you can try it: the difference between è and /œ/ should really just mainly be the position of your lips.

Yeah, right, the lips are rounded — just less than for eux, or maybe just differently... the lips protrude less.

 

[Pacifica]

I wonder if Belgians can be considered the Austrians of France.

Hm, well, maybe but only the Walloons then, and the Flemish would be the Austrians of the Netherlands...?