Interesting Words (moved from Games)
- Thread starter Pacifica
- Start date
Is that in the Te igitur?
Yes, it's the part where there's the Antistes and the Pontifex.
The N.O., last time I checked, has the name of the Pope after the consecration, so it doesn't try to make the mention of the Pope look like a "conditio sine qua non" for the consecration. The V.O. is far more "Papist" IMHO. Not that I'm bothered with defining myself a Papist
If they skip the phrase, I mean, it's a bit of short-circuit in a sense. But I'm nobody to judge, because I'm dissatisfied myself with what I'm witnessing. That makes of me an "unacumist" in their eyes probably
Do celebrants skip phrases in the canon? I've never heard that done, either in Latin or English.If they skip the phrase, I mean, it's a bit of short-circuit in a sense. But I'm nobody to judge, because I'm dissatisfied myself with what I'm witnessing. That makes of me an "unacumist" in their eyes probably
It's "submissa voce" so it's something very personal between the Priest, the Bishop and the Pope and... for those of us who believe, Jesus. It's there, evidently, to prevent, say, a "ghost" mass, i.e. a Mass without the Bishop or Pope knowing, so the priest is kind of obligated to think about what he's saying. And I know of ongoing "ghost" masses these days unfortunately.
Obviously in the 1970 mass nothing is said in a low voice, but even in Tridentine masses, I can hear what the priest is saying if I sit near or at the front. I have never heard of the term ghost mass.
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Etaoin Shrdlu
Guest
Neither have I, but it may have a different name in English. I don't really understand what it is, though.
Yes, if there's no current Pope or no diocesan ordinary at the time.
That's a new term to me, too, but I take your point, it does reinforce that the Eucharistic Sacrifice is only to be offered within the Church. I've heard that in some Orthodox parishes visitors have to be able to say which Bishop they are in communion with before they can receive Holy Communion.
I checked the Missal. The Pope and Bishop are prayed for before the consecration in the Roman Canon in the NO, too, but in the newly confected/concocted EPs that mention occurs after the consecration. That's a very interesting observation, and not one that I had noticed at all. I wish my old liturgy prof were still alive. I'd have an email off to him before I wrote this.
I'm pretty sure also the new missal has things in low voice too. Not everything is said out loud. Now it's several years I attend only the old rite of the Ambrosian Mass, but I remember there were points when the priest wouldn't speak even then.
As you know each priest is allowed to say one mass per day. He can binate or trinate but he needs a special permission. Unfortunately there are priests who lack such permission but say an extra mass -for example- in the Tridentine rite "secretly" for a selected few. It was even more common right after the Council. Rich people in town didn't like the new mass so they wanted the old rite at home. Some of them even bought directly the old wall-altar from the parish (that had to update to the new "table") and put it in their living room. Some made even a good service to the community in a way, saving actual pieces of art from being disposed of, because there was a bit of ansia for getting rid of "superflous things". There's people who basically made a private chapel in their house, where what I call "ghost" masses took place, because they are not said exactly in communion with the whole Church. They are naming people that hasn't given the authorization to use their name.
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Etaoin Shrdlu
Guest
I'm even more lost now, but fascinated.
I didn't know the rule was "before the consecration" but it takes place de facto after it. In any case, the Old Mass is ultra papist, it had to be the negation (oppositum per diametrum) of what was going of what today they call "other denominations".
Another new word! But.......a phrase that does have currency in the SV world is una cum Masses, meaning Traditional Latin Masses offered in communion with publicly recognised Pope in the Vatican. e.g. Masses offered by the FSSP, the SSPX, Richard Williamson's coalition of priests and bishops.That makes of me an "unacumist" in their eyes probably
Maybe practice differs from place to place, but in American churches it seems to be the norm that even the prayers said in the low voice are still audible, except for any personal prayers the priest might be making, but these aren't printed in the missal. On the other hand, I have been to Tridentine low masses where you can hardly tell anyone is saying anything for long stretches, unless the church is very small and/or you're right up front.
The verbal noun of that verb is the Arabic name of the book of Genesis (التكوين, at-takwín).
Is it the factitive itself, or the way Arabic forms it that amazes?
A bit of both, I guess...?