Oratio obliqua

Symposion

Active Member
How do I change these two Latin sentences from Tacitus Annales that I am reading now from indirect speech (oratio obliqua) to direct speech (oratio recta)? I am trying to understand the grammatical construction of Oratio obliqua. My idea is that it would be something like below but as usual I am completely lost. I think that to change oratio feels difficult. I have learnt to see one or the other in text but to change them is new and therefore difficult.

VI:22 Neque mala vel bona, quae vulgus putet: multos, qui conflictari adversis videantur, beatos, at plerosque quamquam magnas per opes miserrimos. si illi gravem fortunam constanter tolerent, hi prospera inconsulte utantur.

Multos sunt conflictantur adversis beatos vident, et pleros sunt quamquam magnas per opes miserrimos vident. Si beatos gravem fortunam constanter tolerant, prosperam inconsulte utuntur.

XIV:49 Ille inter pudorem et iram cunctatus. postremo rescripsit:— Nulla iniuria provocatum Antistium gravissimas in principem contumelias dixisse; earum ultionem a patribus postulatam, et pro magnitudine delicti poenam statui par fuisse. Ceterum se, qui severitatem decernentium impediturus fuerit. moderationem non prohibere: statuerent ut vellent. datam et absolvendi licentiam.

Antistius, nulla iniuria provocatum, gravissimas contumelias in principem dixit. Patres eas et statui par est pro magnitudine delicti poenam ultionem postulaverunt, severitatem decernentium impedivit. Moderationem non prohibuerunt. Statuebant ut volebant. Datus et licentia absolvendi.
 

Bestiola

Moderatrix
Staff member

You have there two passages, not two sentences.

The usual procedure with homework assignment is that you give an attempt and then the forum members correct it or give input.
 

Bestiola

Moderatrix
Staff member
Ok I can see now your attempts but you should be specific about what is the problem.
 

Quasus

Civis Illustris
Sorry, that's gibberish. Do you understand the indirect speech you are trying to convert? Do you know basic syntax, like the subject is in the nominative and the predicate agrees with it? If you do, how could you come up with the pile of verbs like sunt conflictantur vident? Who, according to you, sunt? Who conflictantur? Who vident? What do they vident?
 

Symposion

Active Member
Sorry if I have been a bit unclear above but my answers are:

Multos sunt conflictantur adversis beatos vident, et pleros sunt quamquam magnas per opes miserrimos vident. Si beatos gravem fortunam constanter tolerant, prosperam inconsulte utuntur.

Antistius, nulla iniuria provocatum, gravissimas contumelias in principem dixit. Patres eas et statui par est pro magnitudine delicti poenam ultionem postulaverunt, severitatem decernentium impedivit. Moderationem non prohibuerunt. Statuebant
ut volebant. Datus et licentia absolvendi.

What do you think about them? These are for the last course of intermittent level of Latin. Most of my questions about Latin regards my research in history. Are you new on the Forum? I have a feeling of that. In the past we have discussed Latin without any issues.
 

Bestiola

Moderatrix
Staff member
Read what Quasus said above.

What is the "intermittent level of Latin"? You mean intermediate?

You've been using this forum for your homework assignments for almost a decade now, and even your prof complained once because of it. If you don't know basic Latin, you can't understand oratio obliqua.
 

Symposion

Active Member
My questions about Saxo Grammaticus and the middle ages is because of my research of the Middle ages.

Regarding oratio obliqua I understand the AcI structure in text. The point here is to do change from AcI to not AcI and iötyat is why my brain goes berserk.
 

Symposion

Active Member
I use this Forum for two reasons one is as a help in professional research as a historian. Secondly I use this Forum as a help to learn Latin. I have not constantly studied Latin during these years. I am sorry if I have asked help in learning Latin. I hope it is ok to ask for help when doing research? What comes to "intermittent" vs "intermediate" my first language is not English.
 

Symposion

Active Member
Sorry, that's gibberish. Do you understand the indirect speech you are trying to convert? Do you know basic syntax, like the subject is in the nominative and the predicate agrees with it? If you do, how could you come up with the pile of verbs like sunt conflictantur vident? Who, according to you, sunt? Who conflictantur? Who vident? What do they vident?
Yes I can read Latin and I understand all that but I do not know why my brain does not work to change Oratio obliqua to oratio recta when I can easily read both. That is weird!
 

Bestiola

Moderatrix
Staff member
I use this Forum for two reasons one is as a help in professional research as a historian. Secondly I use this Forum as a help to learn Latin. I have not constantly studied Latin during these years. I am sorry if I have asked help in learning Latin. I hope it is ok to ask for help when doing research? What comes to "intermittent" vs "intermediate" my first language is not English.
There's help when you actually show some effort and basic knowledge and there is "help" when you expect forum members to do the work for you.

In the last thread, about appositions, there were members trying to help you...and you responded with "are you actually Latinists?" And yes, those trying to help you were accredited Latinists, especially the badger in the meadow, whose credentials you questioned. They put a lot of effort into trying to explain and help you, you questioned their expertise because it was above your level of comprehension. That's not a way to show appreciation.

Try to grasp the basics, put some effort into it and then come here.
 
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Symposion

Active Member
I admitt that I am not a professional Latinist so I am sorry if I have offended professional Latinists like Badger in the meadow and Pacifica.
 

Symposion

Active Member
Multi conflictantur adversis vident, beati, at plerique quamquam magnas per opes miserrimos. Si beati gravem fortunam constanter tolerant, hi prosperam inconsulte utuntur.

Antistius, nulla iniuria provocatus, gravissimas in principem contumelias dixit; earum ultionem a patribus postulatam, et pro magnitudine delicti poena statui par esse. Ceterum severitas decernentium impediet. Moderatio non prohibit. Statuebant ut volebant. Datus et absolvendi licentia.

Any better??? :(
 

Symposion

Active Member
The construction used for indirect statements is the Accusativus cum Infinitivo (AcI). This construction is occasionally used in English as in "I believe him to be wise" is the same as "I believe that he is wise" or in Latin "Credo eum prudentem esse". In indirect statements infinitives are used for the predicate verb. The construction is introduced by verbs like putet and rescripsit in the two texts. I think that I can read these sentences.
 

Symposion

Active Member
Oratio obliqua has only been dealt with quickly at the Latin courses so far. This is why I think this is more advanced than for Latin beginners. I study the last course at the intermediate level of Latin.
 
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