Sinologist & Indologist attacks on Proto-Indo-European - Thoughts?

Lycurgus

Member
What are Elephants doing in Lucania?

The male Elephant even today is called a bull, the female a cow, the baby a calf (μόσχος, ογλε), Lt. bōcŭlus, Eng. Bullock . Arb عجل (eajal).
 

Bitmap

Civis Illustris
What are Elephants doing in Lucania?

I don't know* ... some guy came up with the claim that they were called 'oxen of Lucania' ...

* well, actually, I do, and if you care to read my replies you will notice that I've even provided the answer to that question.
 

Lycurgus

Member
The battle of Heracles, Pyrrhus had 20 war elephants with towers holding troops, they somehow managed too transport 20 elephants across the Mediterraneans.
 

Bitmap

Civis Illustris
That's what the sources give us. Cf. Varro's LL 7:
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Apud Naevium:

Atque prius pariet lucusta Lucam bovem.

Luca bos elephans; cur ita sit dicta, duobus modis inveni scriptum. Nam et in Cornelii Commentario erat ab Libycis Lucas, et in Vergilii, ab Lucanis Lucas; ab eo quod nostri, cum maximam quadripedem quam ipsi haberent vocarent bovem et in Lucanis Pyrrhi bello primum vidissent apud hostis elephantos, id est item quadripedes cornutas (nam quos dentes multi dicunt sunt cornua), Lucanam bovem quod putabant, Lucam bovem appellassent.
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Iáson

Cívis Illústris
In Sanskrit, i found अरण्य (Aranya) 'wilderness, desert' and अरण्य (Marava) 'relating to a wilderness',

ἐρημίᾳ 'a desert' (ἀραβίᾳ) (orbe)
ἐρημικός 'living in the desert' (ἀραβικός) (orbi)
ἐρημίτης 'of the desert' (ἀραβίτης) (orbti)

παμπολυς in modern Greek is pronounced more like βαμβολ- and μβ reduced to β in Phoenician π most often turns into β hence παμπολυς > βαβολυς, that resembles the Akkadian, bābili. The akkadian name for the city is TIN.TIR KI. This terminates with γῇ as in πάραλος γῆ (πελασγός) or πυρός γῆ compare with पारसीक (parasika), 'land of fire', a fitting name.
ETYMOLOGY DOES NOT WORK LIKE THIS. YOU CANNOT JUST TAKE SOME CHANCE RESEMBLANCES BETWEEN WORDS AND ASSUME THAT ONE DERIVES FROM THE OTHER.
(apologies for the capital letters, but this really is important)
In Sanskrit, i found अरण्य (Aranya) 'wilderness, desert' and अरण्य (Marava) 'relating to a wilderness',
Good for you, although in fact the Sanskrit you've posted is the same word twice, and ण should be transliterated as ṇa, not na. But that there are similar-sounding words in Sanskrit means nothing.
ἐρημίᾳ 'a desert' (ἀραβίᾳ) (orbe)
ἐρημικός 'living in the desert' (ἀραβικός) (orbi)
ἐρημίτης 'of the desert' (ἀραβίτης) (orbti)
Maybe I'm missing something; I don't really get what the orbe/orbi/orbti is meant to mean. However, that ἐρημία and Ἀραβία might form similar derivative adjectives in Greek means nothing, because adjectival formations in -ικός are ridiculously common in Greek. As a matter of fact, ἀραβίτης is not even a word.
παμπολυς in modern Greek is pronounced more like βαμβολ- and μβ reduced to β
The pronunciation in modern Greek ([pa(m)bolis]) is irrelevant to ancient etymology. If modern Greek π on its own sounds like β to you, you may need your ears checked (or at least your ability to distinguish voicing in unaspirated stops). In any case, the matter is irrelevant, considering the capitalised sentence.

The akkadian name for the city is TIN.TIR KI. This terminates with γῇ as in πάραλος γῆ (πελασγός) or πυρός γῆ compare with पारसीक (parasika), 'land of fire', a fitting name.
No, the Akkadian name is /bābili/. This is sometimes written as TIN.TIR.KI. Isn't KI a determinative sign, ie. a sign meaning 'city' which was not pronounced but which was added on to names of cities, just like (for example) MUNUS is used for a determinative before female names? At any rate it has nothing to do with γῆ, with which it has in common precisely zero sounds. pārasīka is no more connected with πῦρ/γῆ than it is a word for Babylon; it's the Sanskrit version of the word for Persia, an entirely different place.

In the Doric dialect, this is pronounced μαλον as in εὔμαλος "rich in sheep" , hence μέγα μαλον , the μέ- drops out and results in γαμαλ or κάμηλον. In fact the young of a camel is an ἀρνός or ἀμνόν "lamb" .
Have you not read the entry under your own link?
The Dor. form is μῆλον (not μᾶλον)
At any rate, you can't make up an etymology like that, because etymology doesn't work like that. You can't add and subtract and shift letters on a whim.

The Sanskrit for Ivory is दन्त (danta), the homologue of ὀδών, ὀδόντος Lt. dens. "Teeth", so the word obviously meant "big-ox-teeth".
Although 'homologue' is not the word you're looking for, this is perhaps your first correct etymology: Sanskrit दन्त (/dánta/) 'tooth' ~ Latin dēns, dentis 'tooth' ~ Greek ὀδούς, ὀδόντος 'tooth', deriving from PIE *h₃dónt-s. The original meaning was unquestionably 'tooth'.
Please note the difference between this and the other etymologies you have proposed. It is not enough that the words resemble each other superficially, what is important is that the resemblances and differences are regular, because if you look at other correspondences of words in Latin, Greek and Sanskrit, they show the same pattern (Greek initial vowel but nothing in L/Skt; d kept; alternation of e and o, but a in Skt; n kept; t kept).
 

Lycurgus

Member
I have taken an interest in the Dorian dialect of Greek, the common Greek word γῆ is γα, ῆ is more then often α in that dialect.

What proof is needed for ἐρημίᾳ being cognate with Arabia, the Linear-B word is e-re-mo.
ἐρημικός - 'living in the desert' ערבי (Isaiah 13:20)
ἐρημίτης - 'of the desert' ערבתי (II Samuel 32:31)
ἐρημία - 'a desert' ערבה (Deuteronomy 2:8)

שן appears in 1 Kings 10:18 meaning 'Ivory', does this cognate with दन्त and dens
ויעש המלך כסא־שן גדול : ἔτευξε ὁ βασιλεὺς κλισιᾶν ἐλεφάντινος μέγαν

How can it derive from PIE *h₃dónt-s, a language that never existed, rather then the Greek and Aramaic speaking colonies of the Indus Valley during the Persian and Greek period.

What i learned about β, its absent in Mycenaean, for example the word בית "House" is ϝο-κο in Mycenaean then ϝοικος and finally οἰκός, in Sanskrit it is विश् (viś), viθ in Old Persian, vīcus in Latin and wick in old English.

There is no PIE etymology for the both meanings of μᾶλον (sheep or apple).
 

Godmy

Sīmia Illūstris
You may consider this ad hominem, Lycurgus, but in all sincerity, the communication with you does remind one of talking to a deaf-and-dumb (or deaf-and-mute, if you will). You don't seem to reflect to anything which has been told to you, you live in your fictitious world where you don't permit anyone else to enter with reason. The only thing I don't understand is why you bother publishing your thoughts to others, really.

You should especially try and read and understand what Iáson has written to you. He tried to have a serious discussion with you on the subject. It would be at least polite. If you want people to be polite to you, start first.
 

Mafalda

Civis Illustris
You may consider this ad hominem, Lycurgus, but in all sincerity, the communication with you does remind one of talking to a deaf-and-dumb (or deaf-and-mute, if you will). You don't seem to reflect to anything which has been told to you, you live in your fictitious world where you don't permit anyone else to enter with reason. The only thing I don't understand is why you bother publishing your thoughts to others, really.
You should especially try and read and understand what Iáson has written to you. He tried to have a serious discussion with you on the subject. It would be at least polite. If you want people to be polite to you, start first.
Godmy, what serious discussion are you talking about? The personage has plainly forgotten to take his pills or else is writing straight from the cuckoo's nest. The only thing I don't understand is why you all bother to put so much effort into contemplating and answering the crap he is writing and thus allowing him to rob you of your time. Just ignore the poor sod, there are many interesting things one can do instead of reading this trash.
 
Ah, yes, 'ad hominem', as derived from the Black Speech of Mordor: 'az nomum' meaning 'absolute stupidity'.
:hat:
 
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