Things you find illogical in languages

[Pacifica]

There's certainly more than that, but things I find illogical that readily come to my mind now are:

- In many languages: masculine and feminine gender for things.

- In English: the fact that an indirect object can become the subject of a verb in passive, as in "I was given a gift".

- In French: - to say "to approach someone/something" we say "s'approcher de quelqu'un/quelque chose", which is literally "to approach oneself from someone/something".
- To say for ex. "I made my friend read the book", we say "j'ai fait lire le livre à mon ami", which is literally "I have made read the book to my friend"! ... which should really mean something else than the sense in which we use it...*

- In Latin: the subjunctive in result clauses when the result is an actual fact really happening. Why express the potentiality of the action of the main clause to produce a result rather than the reality of the result?

And you, what do you find illogical - in any language?

*Edit: I think I'm starting to find some logic in this. "I made read the book to my friend" = I provoked for my friend the action of reading the book.

 

[Matthaeus]

Unnecessary pleonasms, for one thing, especially in mediaeval literature. Latin, of course.

 

[Heosphorus]

Some verbs prefer to be followed by dative, when it makes no logical sense, since an accusative is more suitable. Happens in German, Latin, Greek (ancient, that is; modern has abolished the dative for good), and presumably other languages too that I do not know of.

 

[Matthaeus]

"inside my house" maxime placet!

 

[Pacifica]

Mihi quoque.

 

[Heosphorus]

Also, the Romans' infatuation of using the ablative (the dative too, but mostly the former) in the most peculiar of ways. Why? Why did they hate me so much?

Also, it donned to me that we have no way of saying bon appétit in English. German, as far as I know, doesn't either. Is this a feature (or lack, thereof) of all Germanic tongues?

 

[Abbatiſſæ Scriptor]

Also, the Romans' infatuation of using the ablative (the dative too, but mostly the former) in the most peculiar of ways. Why? Why did they hate me so much?

It needs be remember'd that while in most European languages the ablative was swallow'd up by the genitive very early on; the Latin ablative not only managed to survive this primordial predation, but to itself defeat and devour the sociaoinstrumental, and partially devour the locative as well.

 

[Heosphorus]

See? I find that illogical. I understand how it could have merged with locative, but instrumental? Maybe it's just me, maybe it's the Greeks' fault, but I always associate instrumental with dative

 

[Abbatiſſæ Scriptor]

Maybe it's just me, maybe it's the Greeks' fault, but I always associate instrumental with dative

Hehe
It Greek it was indeed the dative which devour'd the inſtrumental, but received its comeuppance when it was itſelf devour'd by the genitive.

 

[Heosphorus]

Oh, don't talk to me about modern Greek. I don't know if you've ever come across it (I'd advise you to avoid it, unless it is for humour), but the syntax now without a dative is chaotic! Prepositions, prepositions, prepositions...

 

[Abbatiſſæ Scriptor]

I have no intereſt at all in Dæmonic Greek, or whatever it is they call it. I cannot imagine how the devils even manage to underſtand each other after ioticiſing all their front vowels. Of courſe that was already happening in New Testament times, but it was not yet quite ſo bad. Then again, I fear my entire perspective on linguiſtics might be infamouſly reactionary.

 

[Heosphorus]

Well, ε is still intact. It shall be ioticised eventually as well, you'll see. As for the list of homonyms this shift has produced... I don't even want to think about it.

On a side note: long s. I like it. It's been a while since I saw that outside of a book.

 

[Matthaeus]

Also, it donned to me that we have no way of saying bon appétit in English. German, as far as I know, doesn't either.

What about Guten Appetit! Probably stolen from the French lol, but still, it is used.

 

[Heosphorus]

I didn't know it exists as an expression. It's definitely a French borrowing. It also baffles me why they haven't produced a calque; we all know Germans detest using Latin roots in their language, even in the scientific field.

 

[Matthaeus]

we all know Germans detest using Latin roots in their language, even in the scientific field.

OH really? Nah, I didn't know that. I always thought their syntax is very similarly, rigidly, as it were, structured, like Latin. They have the best philologists in the world, I think. But that may be an overstatement, lol ... I am prone to those.

 

[Ealdboc Aethelheall]

What about Guten Appetit! Probably stolen from the French lol, but still, it is used.

Dutch has an interesting variation on this, 'smakelijk eten', which roughly translates as 'may the food be tasty' or 'may the food be to your liking'. IIRC there is no real equivalent in Danish, although children do usually say 'tak for mad' after a meal; i.e. 'thank you for the food'.

 

[Acsacal]

As a French native speaker I hadn't hesitated to say good appetite to English speakers up to now, and still believe that guten Appetit et приятного аппетита are correct. After googling Как пожелать приятного аппетита по-английски? (to check the spelling of приятного аппетита) I came across that good appetite was non mentionned in Lingvo forum. They recommend enjoy your meal.
Thanks for this omprovement of my English.http://www.google.fr/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CC4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.lingvo.ru%2Factualthread.aspx%3Ftid%3D3553&ei=_5c1U9WADIWK0AWetYGoBA&usg=AFQjCNHgxocTy5sniLpdfz2fJVN0bOwu8g&bvm=bv.63808443,d.d2k

Illogical Latin: ponere or jacere + in + ablative.

Not illogical but logically opposite:
Indonesian

kurang lebih (litt. less or more);​

pulang pergi (litt. return go, for railway or plane tickets).​

Heard in Germany (however a long time ago and may-be no longer fashionable) by somebody asking for the time:

wieviel Uhr ist es ungefähr genau? (litt. what is approximately the exact time?)​

to approach someone/something

In the same way, if I asked for the time of le train de Bruxelles I will be invited to give an additional detail: le train en provenance de Bruxelles ou le train à destination de Bruxelles? (or more colloquially celui qui arrive de Bruxelles ou celui qui y va)

 

[Imber Ranae]

As a French native speaker I hadn't hesitated to say good appetite to English speakers up to now, and still believe that guten Appetit et приятного аппетита are correct. After googling Как пожелать приятного аппетита по-английски? (to check the spelling of приятного аппетита) I came across that good appetite was non mentionned in Lingvo forum. They recommend enjoy your meal.
Thanks for this omprovement of my English.

Or even bon appétit if you want to sound pretentious. Usually we don't say anything equivalent, though.

Illogical Latin: ponere or jacere + in + ablative.

What's illogical about that?

 

[Pacifica]

Something utterly illogical in French: in the "passé composé" - "compound past" formed of the verb "avoir", "to have" + past participle - when the object is a pronoun preceding the verb, the past participle agrees in gender and number with it, but when the object comes after the verb, it doesn't agree.

Ex.: "I have seen her" = "je l'ai vue" = literally "I her have seen (fém.)", ego illam habeo visam. But "I have seen the girl" = "j'ai vu la fille" = literally "I have seen (no agreement) the girl", ego habeo visum (illam) puellam.

And why on earth isn't the article used with predicates in Attic Greek? "The man who did this is the best" = Ὁ άνηρ ὁς τοδε έποιησεν (no article) άριστος έστιν.

I find this weird and a shame because you lose a nuance while you have the article ready in the language and why decide not to use it there?

 

[Abbatiſſæ Scriptor]

Articles are eſſentially only weak demonſtratives in any caſe, and their uſe or diſuse is not ſignificant enough to be conſiſtent even across dialects and regiſters of the ſame language, much leſs across different languages.