Dictionary Recommendation
- Thread starter Callaina
- Start date
LOL, like I said: for anyone else it would work, but for me it doesn't, because I learn visually, and I'm more familiar with Latin letters (obviously); so if I type it in Latin letters, I'll remember that and not the way the word looks in Greek.  Tongue.gif "(1) Tongue out :p")
See, now I've "learned" that word as "ailouros" -- that's how it's referenced in my mental dictionary, so to speak, so if I want to try to think of the Greek spelling, I have to find "ailouros" in my mental word list, and then go through and change every letter mentally into Greek characters...
(You people sure are hard to convince of this. And/or my brain is just bizarre, I suppose.
)
See, now I've "learned" that word as "ailouros" -- that's how it's referenced in my mental dictionary, so to speak, so if I want to try to think of the Greek spelling, I have to find "ailouros" in my mental word list, and then go through and change every letter mentally into Greek characters...
(You people sure are hard to convince of this. And/or my brain is just bizarre, I suppose.
)
For me every Greek word has a a vocalic part too (like I know that alpha is "a", lambda is "l"... + the characters in "ailouros" and "αιλουρος" apart from lambda look quite the same...
In fact, for my website you need only this line of the picture:
And that I think should really be no problem for a skilled student of Latin & Greek (we had to accomplish much harder stuff and we did!)
So:
a,b,d,e, i, k, o, s(partially), t, u, w, y, x look quite exactly as
α,β,δ,ε, ι, κ, ο, ς ,_______,τ, υ, ω, ψ, χ
here I see no problem/no challenge at all.
H and Η (=that was capital eta) are exactly the same, little η and h are at least similar and one evolved from the other.
Q and Θ would be quite similar...
z, m, n, p, r, f won't look the same, but you type them on the basis of the most basic phonetic information for each letter:
ζ, μ, ν, π, ρ, φ
And the only problem is c = ξ which can be easily remember as "ksi" containing "k" which is in Latin mostly written as "c" (as if "cs") so "c" contains a half of the information you need.
I mean, I appreciate that you want to explain that you simply don't like it (ok!), but it is hard for me to accept that you can't use it, with your skills
In fact, for my website you need only this line of the picture:
And that I think should really be no problem for a skilled student of Latin & Greek (we had to accomplish much harder stuff and we did!)
So:
a,b,d,e, i, k, o, s(partially), t, u, w, y, x look quite exactly as
α,β,δ,ε, ι, κ, ο, ς ,_______,τ, υ, ω, ψ, χ
here I see no problem/no challenge at all.
H and Η (=that was capital eta) are exactly the same, little η and h are at least similar and one evolved from the other.
Q and Θ would be quite similar...
z, m, n, p, r, f won't look the same, but you type them on the basis of the most basic phonetic information for each letter:
ζ, μ, ν, π, ρ, φ
And the only problem is c = ξ which can be easily remember as "ksi" containing "k" which is in Latin mostly written as "c" (as if "cs") so "c" contains a half of the information you need.
I mean, I appreciate that you want to explain that you simply don't like it (ok!), but it is hard for me to accept that you can't use it, with your skills
It's not that I can't use it, just that it messes with my brain to do so at this stage.I mean, I appreciate that you want to explain what you simply don't like it (ok!), but it is hard for me to accept that you can't use it, with your skills
You'll simply need to take my word for it, I'm afraid.
Now, once I've thoroughly learned a word in Greek characters (to the point where if I read a text it will "jump out" at me as a single coherent entity, as already many words are doing in the passages we've been reading in my textbook), then to transcribe it into Latin characters and look it up that way should be perfectly fine.
But if I learn it in Latin characters I'll picture it in Latin characters for months to come.
But if I learn it in Latin characters I'll picture it in Latin characters for months to come.
I simply think you don't want use it... but whatever. I mean, if you read the whole post, you can't hardly disagree that 99% of beta code is most inuitive.It's not that I can't use it, just that it messes with my brain to do so at this stage.
You'll simply need to take my word for it, I'm afraid.
Don't tell me that it messes with your brain that alpha is "a" and mi is "m"... I'm sorry for being that annoying, but... (an annoying monkey!). I think that post just breaks the idea completely that it should be difficult.
I honestly just think you haven't looked at it and seen that it is most intuitive for any student of Greek who knows the Latin alphabet.
Hmm... but all you need to know is how to pronounce it: if you pronounce "l", then you type "l". If you pronounce "b", then you type "b"... That's the whole idea.
But I think that once you really look it, you'll see yourself. But everything in its own time
E
Etaoin Shrdlu
Guest
This may or may not be related, but I'm wondering if Callaina – or anyone else – visualises words that they say, or that others say. Also, if they do, whether they transliterate it mentally for languages where they haven't mastered the writing system.
Not many people do, but those who do tend to think that everyone does, because it never occurs to them to question it. Until they get a few odd looks when they refer to it.
Not many people do, but those who do tend to think that everyone does, because it never occurs to them to question it. Until they get a few odd looks when they refer to it.
You mistake my point. As a lookup tool, beta code is quite intuitive.
As a learning tool, it will put me in entirely the wrong mindset, because I'll start treating Greek text like just a cipher, so to speak, of Latin text. I want to be thinking and memorizing words in Greek letters, not Latin ones.
Just as a parallel: imagine you were learning a language written in Arabic script (I'm assuming you don't know this alphabet, but if you do, just take another example)
like Farsi, which I studied about 5 years ago. Now, imagine you were doing your best to read in this new and unfamiliar script, but that your dictionary was a Romanized Farsi dictionary (yes, these do exist and I avoided them like the plague) -- in other words, to look up any Farsi word you had to first mentally transcribe it into Latin letters and then look it up. Wouldn't that mess with your brain a bit, really? Wouldn't you rather just have a dictionary where you saw one version of words, not two, each written in a different script?
I'm not sure I (subconsciously) mentally visualize every word that I say, but yes, I do this quite a bit.
I also find it nearly impossible to learn languages orally. They tried immersion-style French on us in Grade 2...bad idea. I don't think I learned a thing all year (edit: in French class, that is. Thankfully our other classes were still in English.) Mostly I just stared at the lady up at the front of the class in total confusion, wondering what incomprehensible thing she was babbling about that day.
In particular, when I'm learning a new language, I remember new words by remembering how they look, not how they sound (and probably this is where Godmy & I differ). The visual mental image is primary; the auditory mental image is just an elaboration of it.
Incidentally, I learned to read before I (mostly) learned to speak (I think I babbled a few basic words, like "Mama" and "apple" and so on before that, but I really didn't say much until my mom sat me down in front of an alphabet book and showed me how letters work...and nobody's ever been able to get me to stop reading since, or talking for that matter
)
What about you ( Etaoin Shrdlu )?
E
Etaoin Shrdlu
Guest
Yes, that's why I have trouble with languages I can't automatically visualise, which is anything not written in the Greek or Latin alphabet. I don't know why I can't read Cyrillic properly, given that it's just Greek with some extra bits, but that's life. And some go backwards, or have impossible ligatures.
Incidentally, I learned to read before I (mostly) learned to speak (I think I babbled a few basic words, like "Mama" and "apple" and so on before that, but I really didn't say much until my mom sat me down in front of an alphabet book and showed me how letters work...and nobody's ever been able to get me to stop reading since, or talking for that matter
Did you read extremely early or speak extremely late?
Probably a bit of both...I learned the alphabet at about two and a half, or so my mom tells me, and then started reading easy picture books etc. (Actually I do remember learning the alphabet, but not how old I was at the time, of course
)
Then you could use it
I understand, but then you're not required to see the beta-code anymore than just on one occasion when you're required to type it somewhere. Once you get the result, it is again in the alphabeta (as you've seen).
Yes, it is unfortunate if you are forced to read the beta-code: I agree. But my dictionary doesn't do it nor I know about any resource for Ancient Greek that would force you do that: this is just a solution for typing and I really think and I believe it's true that once you can pronounce the word you've remembered (no matter if you remembered it through its image or any other way), then you can type it in beta-code. And you can't do it only if you cannot recall the word & pronounce it in the same time as you recalled it and I believe that is not possibleJust as a parallel: imagine you were learning a language written in Arabic script (I'm assuming you don't know this alphabet, but if you do, just take another example)
Ok, if you remember a word as αἴλουρος, recall the word... or you simply read it in a text, then IF you can read it, IF you can pronounce it (and if you cannot, then you haven't learnt yet the basics, Greek 101, right?), then you can type in the beta code.
a is a
b is b
e is e...
You're not required to do any particularly difficult transliteration task: just being able to know that "alpha" stands for "a", beta stands for "b" <- is this difficult?
I think: aren't we trying somehow to make this subject more obscure than it is??
I'm trying to break this down to the particular problems and it turns out: there are none.
Yes, I don't see into your brain, but I'm sure you know that alpha stands for a, beta for b.... it seems to me you want to delude yourself that there is more to it: no, there is not.