Family Motto 'plus qu'onque mes'

[JesseC]

Hey everyone,

can anyone help me with this family motto?

plus qu'onque mes <from old photo copy, may not be apostrophe

ive tried several online translators with no luck

any help or points in the right direction would be very useful

Thanks for your time,
Jesse

 

[cinefactus]

I think that this is Middle French rather than Latin. I don't really speak Middle French, but I think it is something like, "more than ever before" If you can find someone to translate Middle French for you, please let us know the answer...

 

[JesseC]

Yer, i had some luck with the french translater but wasnt quite right, thanks for the point in the right direction, will do

thanks

anyone know middle french per chance? heh

 

[cinefactus]

It isn't modern French so a modern French translator wouldn't work - and the automated translation systems are very poor anyway...

 

[JesseC]

apparently it may mean "more then ever mine"

 

[Corsicum]

"plus qu'onque mes"
Perhaps :
"plus qu'onque mes amis sont me sont chers." "Plus que quiconque mes amis sont me sont chers."
"More than anyone else my friends are dear to me."

« qu'onque » replace « quiconque » => anybody /anyone

So may be :
More than anyone/anybody else my
…more than anybody else my

Une voiture quel qu'onque
Une voiture quelconque
A car any

 

[cinefactus]

apparently it may mean "more then ever mine"

It is tempting to translate mes as mine, but I am not sure that it is correct.

For example, from "Le Fresne"

Li sires dit: "De ce sui liez;
Onques mes ne fui si haitiez.
The lord said :"????
I have never been so happy"

Li chevaliers qant il le sot
Onques mes si grant joie n'ot
The knight when he knew about it
Was never so joyful

Le paille esgarde sor le lit,
Onque mes nul si bel ne vit
She saw the cloth on the bed
She has never seen one so beautiful

 

[Imber Ranae]

Onque is pretty obviously derived from umquam, the Latin word for "ever". Mes seems to mean "before", but I'm not sure of the word's origin.

 

[Imber Ranae]

My guess is that mes is derived from Latin maius "more", and is the equivalent of modern French mais. It is used as an adversative conjunction, meaning "but", like modern French mais, but coupled with onque the meaning "before" seems to have developed from the sense of "more than now."

 

[JesseC]

wow, i personally like "more then ever before"

thanks everyone for your contributions

 

[Corsicum]

Imber Ranae@ : My first explanation was a “big mistake”, sorry. I'm learning latin, so if I understand : “onque mes vue" "never seen before". As this example on the net : "after he came down to the sea he had never seen before” "puis descendí a la mer qu'il n'avoit onque mes vue".
http://books.google.fr/books?id=TqXI9ot ... &ct=result
« Plus qu onque mes »
72 HISTORIC DEVICES, BADGES
http://www.archive.org/stream/historicd ... l_djvu.txt

 

[JesseC]

72 HISTORIC DEVICES, BADGES
http://www.archive.org/stream/historicd ... l_djvu.txt

Wow.

My last name is a derivative of Cleve. Would you be able to find any more information along these lines.

Thanks,
Jesse

 

[JesseC]

Anything past nicholas Cleeve father of Nicholas Cleave who is father of johannes cleave who is father of Thomas Cleave would be absolutely amazing.

thanks for your effort,
Jesse